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#52494 - 08-27-08 08:06 PM
Hiking FUEL
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DUG67
Member
Registered: 05-25-06
Posts: 212
Loc: Wildomar
(69.19.14.25)
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Going big miles with lots of UP requires plenty of calories. The last few hikes I've used my wife's Body Bug to gauge how many calories I'm burning. On Forester Pass I was shocked to see it read 9600 calories for the 23 hour adventure. Now with double the fun coming up I am scrambling for a fuel that is light weight, no drama and will go down easy. I don't really consider it food anymore since my primary goal to to gas my body up enough to do something this crazy. The stove and all the dehydrated stuff got tossed out of the pack already. I've carried candy bars for years and they usually go down ok. Last hike I took some Twinkees and Zingers in some lightweight ziplock containers and that work alright as well. While I was at the grocery store today I was thinking - What has tons of calories, is light, doesn't need mixing or cooking and won't get smashed? Oh and it has to taste so good I'll want to eat it. Well I found something that I'm going to try. It's not all I'm bringing, so if it doesn't work, I still have something else. Everyone likes cake, right? Why? Cuz of the frosting! I found a can of whipped butter creame frosting that has over 2000 calories inside that plastic, resealable container. A couple spoonfulls is over 200 a shot. Stupid? Crazy? Maybe. But I sure like froasting!! I'll LYK how it turns out. :)...........................................DUG
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
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#52496 - 08-27-08 08:28 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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DocRodneydog
Member
Registered: 01-13-07
Posts: 455
Loc: Santa Clarita
(76.87.101.248)
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EEEEKS
That is a lot of fat calories.Made with pure lard and sugar.I think that would make me hurl on an extreme workout.Lets us know how it goes down.
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#52498 - 08-27-08 08:32 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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Ken
Member
Registered: 01-29-03
Posts: 1671
Loc: Studio City, Ca
(66.245.192.138)
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This is actually pretty reasonable. I've often thought that GU was an expensive way to dispense a small amount of a not particularly special nutritional product. Basically, you're doing the same thing, mining for calories.
I've read on various forums of a variety of substitutes. Nutella seems to be a recurring theme, of a simliar commercially available product.
I don't think these things are a sub for food, but as an energy supplement, why not?
_________________________
"But the alpenglow always seems to be the most beautiful late in the year."
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#52499 - 08-27-08 08:42 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Ken]
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hwstock
Member
Registered: 09-12-04
Posts: 33
(71.52.33.169)
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What tastes good at low elevations is often unbearable up high.
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#52500 - 08-27-08 08:53 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: hwstock]
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DUG67
Member
Registered: 05-25-06
Posts: 212
Loc: Wildomar
(69.19.14.25)
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What tastes good at low elevations is often unbearable up high.
Ain't that the truth! Even 14 years later I'm still trying new stuff. I won't be "up high" the whole time, just most of it.  It's a lot of up, up, up and then down before we go back up. I gotta make sure I bring the toothbrush!...................DUG
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
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#52505 - 08-28-08 08:05 AM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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DocRodneydog
Member
Registered: 01-13-07
Posts: 455
Loc: Santa Clarita
(76.87.101.248)
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What makes this sound unpalatable to me is the combination of high fat and high sugar together while hiking. Most of the quick energy comes from sugar which breaks down almost immediately into usuable calories and will elevate the blood sugar. The fat slowly breaks down to become usuable energy.There are many ways to get a quick burst with goo,shot blocks,candy etc.
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#52506 - 08-28-08 08:21 AM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DocRodneydog]
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Steve C
Member
Registered: 01-16-03
Posts: 1650
Loc: Fresno, CA
(129.8.175.52)
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Can-'O-Frosting! Mmmmmm, sounds good. Only on a grueling hike could I justify that, but it just might work. I am looking forward to hearing how well it goes on the hike.
How does it compare in calories per ounce to peanut butter and grape jelley?
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#52507 - 08-28-08 08:35 AM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Steve C]
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DUG67
Member
Registered: 05-25-06
Posts: 212
Loc: Wildomar
(138.163.0.41)
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Can-'O-Frosting! Mmmmmm, sounds good. Only on a grueling hike could I justify that, but it just might work. I am looking forward to hearing how well it goes on the hike.
How does it compare in calories per ounce to peanut butter and grape jelley?
I'll check my kid's stash tonight and figure out how it stacks up. I'm not a big peanut butter or jelly kind of guy, but in the name of hiking science I'll get the numbers for you.
The thing to remember here is I'm not going on a "hike" or a camping trip. We are trying to cover nearly 70 miles and almost 17000 feet of gain in 48 hours. I think that calls for getting outside the box. I plan to eat a couple Double Doubles at the In and Out in Fresno on the way to the park. I like to pig out a couple hours before a big "death march" just so I can carry less food (fuel). I'll have my usual mix of stuff I like to eat so if trying to eat frosting doesn't work, I won't starve. Actually, you can't starve in 48 hours, but you can "hit the wall" from not eating. I also don't plan to sit there and eat the whole can (though I have as a kid), but just put down a spoonfull or two at breaks. It's just what I do to advance the hobby. :)...............................................DUG
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
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#52508 - 08-28-08 08:45 AM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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MooseTracks
Member
Registered: 08-15-06
Posts: 1170
Loc: Bishop, CA
(66.13.254.210)
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The thing to remember here is I'm not going on a "hike" or a camping trip. We are trying to cover nearly 70 miles and almost 17000 feet of gain in 48 hours.
Rock on!!!
I plan to eat a couple Double Doubles at the In and Out in Fresno on the way to the park.
Ummm... you know why they call it In-n-Out, right? On one end and out the other... blech.
How's about chocolate chip cookie dough? I might have to try that. Goes well with frosting... 
-L 
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#52510 - 08-28-08 10:24 AM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: MooseTracks]
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Steve Peacock
Member
Registered: 05-27-08
Posts: 108
Loc: Alhambra CA USA
(71.160.80.66)
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Hershey's chocolate syrup in a squeeze bottle. Just sip it and drink water on the down hills. Down hills gives it the time and blood supply to work for the uphills to come. You could toss in a stack of Ephedra Caffeine Aspirin (Ephedrine) during the session to keep the process stirred up.
Your highest kick per (edible) gram is fat that you might get out of cashews or Brazil nuts. They are a bit tougher to digest since most of the blood on up hills is going to your large muscles, the intestines only get to share a little...enough to process water. Be careful. Nuts (like Brazils), in large quantities, can be toxic.
Many of the Olympic long runners have a carbo load method that includes a processed rice formula at a specific time(s) of the day for months during training and before race. It takes the tummy a bit to train into it as well. That is formulated to give the extra boost for only a few hours though. The thing to learn is it is just not a haphazard loading.
Palm nuts (pejibayes) boiled in condensed chicken broth, with warm butter and salt are gorgeous.
While downing the mashed potatoes, rice and pasta in pre-run preparation be sure to consider how to digest copious quantities of Mazola oil. Get the fat stored up (3,000 Kcal/pound for use later) and then just keep the sugar levels high with LOTS OF WATER to process the digestion and energy conversions. Caution. You have to work up to the excess oil or you get copious quantities of gollywobles as well.
You might want to drop a line to Matt to see what he is currently using for push rods. Here is a typical vacation
http://mattmahoney.net/2001/index.html
and don't forget to check out
http://mattmahoney.net/nolans14/
(and the details about that bit of a jaunt as well).
There is a thread and several blogs on Colorado's Hardrock (100 mile - 48 hr). In the race this year, one gent, who finished, ate double cheese burgers, drank beer and smoked cigars for relaxation at fueling stations along the way. One vegetarian, who runs Barr Camp at 10,500' on the side of Pikes Peak, just recently got his 1000 mile belt, after finishing 10 consecutive races. The hard rock would be like completing a 5 hour marathon, resting for 5 hours and repeating this formula 5 times. GREAT! way to spend an odd weekend.
Teddy Roosevelt thought that a bully work out was a 50 pound pack in 50 miles in 50 hours. There are other races that cut that time in half.
Edited by Steve Peacock (08-28-08 10:41 AM)
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#52515 - 08-28-08 11:47 AM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Steve Peacock]
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Blooty
Member
Registered: 10-11-07
Posts: 112
Loc: Behind the Orange Curtain, Cal...
(159.119.128.202)
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I like the sound of the cookie dough....at least that has egg (protein) :-)
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#52516 - 08-28-08 12:09 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Steve Peacock]
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MooseTracks
Member
Registered: 08-15-06
Posts: 1170
Loc: Bishop, CA
(71.119.62.249)
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Teddy Roosevelt thought that a bully work out was a 50 pound pack in 50 miles in 50 hours.
Oh, I'm SO on it!!
He also formed the Bull Moose Party, if I'm not mistaken...
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#52519 - 08-28-08 01:30 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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Bullet
Member
Registered: 02-16-05
Posts: 56
Loc: OC, CA
(75.4.215.36)
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GU is good for shorts burst of energy for shorter duration events. Other pure sugar ideas will spike your insulin levels then make you crash.
For longer endurance type things you want a bit more mix of fat and carbs to keep insulin levels more consistent.
On a recent trek down the PCT I mixed 1 serving each of:
1) Peanut M&Ms
2) Dry Fruit mix - included some dried banana (from Trader Joes)
3) Rasins
4) Honey Roasted Peanuts.
I weighed each item to make sure I had the labels definition of 1 serving for each item.
I mixed the ingredients and put them all in one snack-sized zip-lock bag and put that in my cargo pocket.
Then, every 30 minutes, I took one pinch of the goodies. Result - never hungry and plenty of sustained energy. No up-down roller coaster on energy levels.
For the 5-day trek, I prepared 5 of these little baggies. Doesn't crush, relatively light but delivers a ton of sustainable calories.
Edited by Bullet (08-28-08 01:31 PM)
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#52521 - 08-28-08 02:22 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Bullet]
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DUG67
Member
Registered: 05-25-06
Posts: 212
Loc: Wildomar
(69.19.14.35)
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I tossed out a couple candy bars to make room for the Can O Frosting and added a small baggie of nuts. I might even bring a bagel. Besides all that I have the usual stuff I drag along that sometimes gets eaten and sometimes not. Actually I rarely eat everything but I would not want to get caught short. And I like a huge varity.
I'm still tossing stuff out of the pack. Total weight with everything right now is 23.5 pounds.
I'm really starting to 2nd guess some of my choices. Like - headlamp. 48 hours, almost 1/2 will be at night. The headlamp HAS to work. I packed both of them and no spare batterys. The headlamp has never failed before, maybe I toss the 2nd one and bring extra batterys? Thermal bottoms (Under Armour) to sleep in. I usually sleep cold and the thought of something clean and dry sounds good, but........ maybe I toss them and just put my wind pants on over my hiking pants? That's probably gonna happen. I wish I could toss the bag and bivy.................................................DUG
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
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#52522 - 08-28-08 03:33 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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Steve Peacock
Member
Registered: 05-27-08
Posts: 108
Loc: Alhambra CA USA
(71.160.80.66)
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Run the trail at night, giving up the bag and bivy, and snuggle down later in the daylight to catch a nap or two with the sun warming you. You can at least do with a lighter weight bag if you don't hike on the day shift.
Didn't figure you would sleep...such luxury.
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#52524 - 08-28-08 04:00 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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lik2hik
Member
Registered: 06-15-04
Posts: 23
(71.177.137.27)
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Dug:
I did a similar sort of hike a few weeks ago with many hours of hiking in the dark. I had never been on the part of the JMT that I was traveling before so I was route finding as well. Consider a small, powerful hand held flashlight to supplement the headlamp. Holding the light at chest level or below allows you to read bumps, rocks, roots and other things a lot better and you don't have to constantly aim your head up and down. This can save you an actual "pain in the neck" and allow you to move along a little quicker. When the trail was smooth and obvious, I traveled on the headlamp alone. You might want to try the system out before you go.
The flashlight I used weighed only a couple of ounces. It used VERY EXPENSIVE (CR123 Lithium) batteries than only last 2 or 3 hours but it put out some serious light.
Peanut butter Bagels worked well for me for fuel.
Have Fun!
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#52525 - 08-28-08 04:05 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Steve Peacock]
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Doug Sr
Moderator
Registered: 12-16-02
Posts: 717
(207.200.116.74)
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Hi Dug some good talk , I would lean for honey a homemade bread that you load with all the nuts etc frost as you like and worry more about that 15 pounds of internal product that needs to exit, sleep during the hot hours and travel during the cool hours , why are you taking a pack at all should be able to stuff sack and keep moving speed and comfort ??? Good Luck Doug
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#52530 - 08-28-08 04:56 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Steve Peacock]
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DUG67
Member
Registered: 05-25-06
Posts: 212
Loc: Wildomar
(69.19.14.42)
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Run the trail at night, giving up the bag and bivy, and snuggle down later in the daylight to catch a nap or two with the sun warming you. You can at least do with a lighter weight bag if you don't hike on the day shift.
Didn't figure you would sleep...such luxury.
I know, I know, I'm getting weak in my old age. We're not hiking and we're not running. More like walking real fast with packs. The "plan" as it stands right now is to go from Bubbs to Junction Meadow in one push. 22-24 hours. Get 3-5 hours of rest, blow by Crabtree, up the backside, hit Whitney and then fly downhill to the Portal.
If anyone is interested, I can post a link to my SPOT and if it works we can be tracked. Then again, with a 3 day weekend, who is gonna be sitting around the computer?
I checked and peanut butter has more calories per tablespoon than frosting. So, since I planned on bringing a fresh bagel with me, I will lather it in peanut butter!
Big thanks to whoever suggested the fake Crocs water shoes!! Super light! We are bringing one pair to share. Cross and toss back.
Man, I am ready to go NOW!!..............................DUG
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
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#52532 - 08-28-08 05:04 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: Doug Sr]
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DUG67
Member
Registered: 05-25-06
Posts: 212
Loc: Wildomar
(69.19.14.42)
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Hi Dug some good talk , I would lean for honey a homemade bread that you load with all the nuts etc frost as you like and worry more about that 15 pounds of internal product that needs to exit, sleep during the hot hours and travel during the cool hours , why are you taking a pack at all should be able to stuff sack and keep moving speed and comfort ??? Good Luck Doug
Thanks for the good karma Doug - I know your positive vibes carry far through those mountains. Why am I carrying a pack? Cuz I'm not "there" yet. I'm not to a point where I can ditch the bag and bivy, where I can forget the pad, the 1st aid kit, the water filter, etc, etc. Someday maybe. 14 years ago I tried to haul 50+ pounds up to the top in my jeans. As a DAY HIKE! So I'm getting there. (oh, I made it that time BTW - left most of my CRAP at Trail Camp). One thing that will make me push extra hard is the chance to get in extra early and get burger!! (I wish)...............................................DUG
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
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#52533 - 08-28-08 05:23 PM
Re: Hiking FUEL
[Re: DUG67]
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Steve Peacock
Member
Registered: 05-27-08
Posts: 108
Loc: Alhambra CA USA
(71.160.80.66)
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Doug Sr mentions honey. How can you even THINK of pb with out honey. Pocket pita's are more dense/calorie than bagel I think. And you can walk with them stuffed and the honey won't drip all over you. You can pour some olive oil inside and cover the side walls as well. I think the only thing more calorie packed than honey (at 60/table spoon) is olive oil (twice the calories) and PB is 95. You can get a nice convenient plastic squeeze container for the honey too.
Humas. Just add water and extra oil. Helps make the bagel go down too. You can get more bagels down you if you soak them first then squeeze out the water before you eat them.
By the way, a Johnsonville Brat is 250kcal each. Not sure how well you would keep those down, but easy snack food if precooked. Get Moose to cook up some pancakes for those pigs, dip them in oil and pour honey all over the rest of it.
You had best be stoking calories now - 6 meals a day that includes a couple of malted milkshakes with two eggs should get a start.
DANG! I love preparing for a big push like this. Come on! You got to get serious about pounding down some food. Hard to eat 10-12,000kcal a day on the trail. Especially if only 100kcal a mouthfull. 
Good luck! Keep your respiration below your heart rate if you can. Hope you don't stub a toe in the dark.
Don't forget the ketchup.
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