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#43785 - 12-26-07 11:38 PM
New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike limits
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Steve C
Member
Registered: 01-16-03
Posts: 1688
Loc: Fresno, CA
(68.125.137.71)
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Not sure what to say...
Link on the Inyo N.F. main page: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/
Here is the newsroom message: An Update on Daily Quotas for Mt. Whitney Trail and North Fork Lone Pine
Here is the message (I have emphasized the 2008 change):
News Release
USDA Forest Service
Inyo National Forest
Contacts: Nancy Upham (760) 873-2427
Bishop, CA (December 21, 2007)...Each year over 20,000 people attempt to climb Mt. Whitney. As the climbing season approaches, Rangers from the Inyo National Forest would like to share some important information with climbers.
The 2001 Wilderness Management Plan directs the Inyo National Forest to manage Mt. Whitney day use through a limited entry quota. For 2008 the Inyo National Forest plans to issue permits for up to 100 day users in the Mt. Whitney Zone. This includes the combined use on the Mt. Whitney Trail and the North Fork of Lone Pine (NFLP.)
In the past, day use was not limited in NFLP. However, this use has been steadily increasing and the area is now one of the more popular areas in the John Muir Wilderness. Over 3000 people visited NFLP in 2007.
District Ranger Garry Oye has concerns about resource impacts and visitor safety in NFLP. “We had an increase in use of the North Fork of Lone Pine and to manage this use we have included it in the Mt. Whitney Zone quota,” said Ranger Oye.
Resource concerns include crowding, impacts to soils and loss of vegetation. In recent years, there have also been several serious accidents in the NFLP. Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks backcountry rangers have expressed concern about these accidents and increasing numbers of inexperienced climbers in the area.
In addition to day use permits, the Inyo National Forest plans to issue permits for up to 95 overnight users in the Mt. Whitney Zone. Permits for 60 overnight visitors are allocated for Whitney Trail, 10 for NFLP and 25 for Trail Crest (west side entry.)
Wilderness permits are required year round for everyone in the Mt. Whitney Zone. Limited entry quotas are in effect between May 1 and November 1. Permits may be obtained at the InterAgency Visitor Center, one mile south of Lone Pine on Highway 395. For information about reserving permits in advance, contact the Wilderness Permit Reservation Office at (760) 873-2483, or check the Inyo National Forest website at http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/howto.shtml.
USDA Forest Service - Inyo National Forest
Last Modified: Monday, 24 December 2007 at 08:12:39 EST
It appears to me that by including the NFLP in the dayhike quota without increasing the quota or applying a separate one, Mr. Oye has just taken away access for 3000 people.
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#43786 - 12-27-07 06:26 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike limits
[Re: Steve C]
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Richard P.
Member
Registered: 06-26-03
Posts: 1907
Loc: Ridgecrest, CA
(71.119.78.111)
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We can't say we didn't see this coming. I probably won't be upset about it (I've often complained about the amount of damage we've been doing to the lower part of the drainage. Unfortunately, the way the "voluntary" permit was set up didn't do anything to reduce it. I doubt this will either.) until the day I don't get a permit to head up.
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#43787 - 12-27-07 07:32 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Richard P.]
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wingding
Member
Registered: 05-07-03
Posts: 145
(71.165.80.114)
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Less people in the Whitney zone doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. I wonder if they are going to include the North Fork Permits in the lottery?
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#43789 - 12-27-07 09:01 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: wingding]
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Doug Sr
Moderator
Registered: 12-16-02
Posts: 749
(207.200.116.74)
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Hi A few comments on the new system, I spent some time talking over the changes and if you put all the parts out on the table it is a move to make getting a permit on the North Fork on the day that you want, also it may remove the few people that are using the North Fork now because they can not get a main trail permit. The permit will be for the Whitney Zone, so the hikers can use any route, in the zone.
The limit for over night permits is set for 95 as reported in the local paper today, some concern how that may work on the North Fork as the limit is now 10 .
Last season it looks like during the main season July-Aug. about 400 permits went un used and for the 2007 season over 7000 permits were not used, so as was always expected hikers have not changed their use patterns , some maybe due to weather/trail conditions or other factors, I guess it would be like snow boarding in Aug.
If this change works like others in the past expect more pressure on the permit system this year due to the public awareness to Whitney again. Thanks Doug
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#43791 - 12-27-07 12:44 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Doug Sr]
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AsABat
Member
Registered: 12-26-02
Posts: 244
Loc: www.4jeffrey.net
(70.167.172.62)
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The public wants access to its land, and the government takes it away. I love the solitude wilderness, but Whitney ain't wilderness. They need to start managing use and stop managing numbers - manage trails so they are followed, manage waste in a commonsense way, and manage expectations. Let the public have the main trail, charge an adequate permit fee, and use the funds to preserve the real wilderness. Opening up the Whitney Trail to all users would keep the inexperienced out of North Fork, preserving the experience there.</soapbox>
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#43792 - 12-27-07 01:32 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: AsABat]
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Rick Kent
Member
Registered: 05-23-03
Posts: 507
Loc: Bakersfield, CA
(63.175.219.5)
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I tend to agree with AsaAbat. This is very disappointing and doesn't make sense. I cannot in any way support this. If you can let 3.4 million people a year into a lush meadow habitat like Yosemite Valley I don't see why a rather desolate area such as the Whitney Zone should be so restricted (especially now that wag bags are required). I agree in having a certain limit (I'd say about 150 overnight and 200 dayhikers) but 100 for both the Main Trail and North Fork is outrageously low. This definitely needs to be protested vigorously. I don't know what the best method for protesting is but if this goes ahead it certainly should be fought.
Edited by Rick Kent (12-27-07 01:40 PM)
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#43797 - 12-27-07 03:14 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Rick Kent]
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wingding
Member
Registered: 05-07-03
Posts: 145
(76.225.168.2)
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Okay, I found the answer to my question at the Inyo National Forest site:
Can I reserve a permit to day hike on the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek trail?
Yes, day hike permits are now reservable. If you will hike beyond Lower Boy Scout Lake, a Mt Whitney Zone Day Use Permit is required. Reservations for day use can be made through the Mt Whitney lottery or up until 2 days before the trip if space is available. Contact the Wilderness Permit Reservation Office for more information. Visit the Eastern Sierra InterAgency Visitor Center to pick up your permit along with human waste management pack-it-out kits. Overnight use of North Fork of Lone Pine Creek trail has a separate quota that is not part of the lottery and can be reserved by following instructions for "other trails".
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#43799 - 12-27-07 04:32 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: wingding]
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spinefxr
Member
Registered: 02-26-03
Posts: 367
Loc: San Clemente, CA
(207.200.116.74)
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Wow, as soon as they started counting people on the NF I knew day hike quotas were coming. I am shocked they have tied both trails together on the same quota though. I would not be surprised if no day hike permits for the NF are issued on many days during the quota period. So many more people are requesting MT permits that statistically they will fill the quota with them before they happen to pull any NF permit request. I do not disagree with a quota on day hike permits for the NF but can not believe they have grouped them together with the MT quota.
_________________________
Richard
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#43800 - 12-27-07 05:31 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Steve C]
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Kashcraft
Member
Registered: 01-27-03
Posts: 749
(69.105.20.224)
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Last year when they made us pick up permits to go up the North Fork I was worried this would happen. When I asked why at the Forest Service they spoke of the danger above Iceberg Lake....mostly rocks knocked loose which can hit climbers below.
That is always a concern, but how would this plan limit this danger. Regardless of the number (say a daily quota of 10 to 30 in the North Fork) there is no way to time the climbers so they are in the chute above Iceberg Lake alone. Overnighters hit the chute earlier then the day hikers. I have never found either to be a real problem.
I sure hope someone restores a workable solution. Combining the permits for both trails can not be the answer. Imagine a day when all the permits are used on the regular Mt Whitney trail and none on the North Fork.
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#43801 - 12-27-07 07:17 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Steve C]
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wbtravis5152
Member
Registered: 12-22-02
Posts: 1518
(66.215.186.56)
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The combining the day hike of MMWT and MR is not a big deal as I can see. I was looking at last year's leftovers the other day and not many days sold out during "Whitney Prime Time", the time between 4th of July and Labor Day Weekends.
I don't see this as having much if any impact on either trail.
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#43802 - 12-27-07 07:24 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Rick Kent]
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DocRodneydog
Member
Registered: 01-13-07
Posts: 488
Loc: Santa Clarita
(76.87.101.248)
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I tend to agree with AsaAbat. This is very disappointing and doesn't make sense. I cannot in any way support this. If you can let 3.4 million people a year into a lush meadow habitat like Yosemite Valley I don't see why a rather desolate area such as the Whitney Zone should be so restricted (especially now that wag bags are required). I agree in having a certain limit (I'd say about 150 overnight and 200 dayhikers) but 100 for both the Main Trail and North Fork is outrageously low. This definitely needs to be protested vigorously. I don't know what the best method for protesting is but if this goes ahead it certainly should be fought.
Exactly!!!Most of Whitney above the tree line looks like the moon.Not much to trample.I would think that Yosemite is much more enviromentaly senstive than Whitney yet they don't have any quotas or lottery there. I have to think Yosemite is such a cash cow that they leave it un-restricted.I agree we need to protest LOUDLY.
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#43806 - 12-27-07 08:50 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: DocRodneydog]
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Sierra Sam
Member
Registered: 05-16-03
Posts: 751
(75.245.205.148)
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I would think that Yosemite is much more enviromentaly senstive than Whitney yet they don't have any quotas or lottery there. I have to think Yosemite is such a cash cow that they leave it un-restricted.I agree we need to protest LOUDLY.
Yosemite restricts access in two different ways. They have (very small) trailhead quotas for overnight trips at each trail start. Much more broadly, they have significantly reduced the number of campsites available, so fewer people can even come to the valley to hike at all. While perhaps an overstatement, it seems like the Yosemite rangers would eliminate camping and otherwise restrict access to the valley if they could get away with it.
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#43810 - 12-27-07 09:38 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Steve C]
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TRETINA
Member
Registered: 10-03-06
Posts: 387
Loc: China Lake
(71.105.62.164)
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#43813 - 12-28-07 12:00 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike limits
[Re: Steve C]
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VersatileFred
Member
Registered: 07-03-03
Posts: 1204
Loc: SoCal
(69.224.227.215)
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The Mt Whitney Lottery Process: The "2008 Mt Whitney Lottery Application" form must be used. Applications must be sent by mail and postmarked in February to be accepted for the Mt. Whitney Lottery. On February 15, we begin making reservations from applications drawn at random. Applications received after February 15th are stirred into random order and added into the same ongoing lottery each day. Applications postmarked in February that arrive in March will still be accepted into the lottery. Every application will be drawn and considered. When your application is drawn, a reservation will be made if quota space is still available for the entry dates you requested. Reservation fee is only charged if you are successful. Results are sent by mail.
I have been looking for the new lottery forms to get posted, but so far all they have posted is the above note on the wilderness permit page.
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#43816 - 12-28-07 09:45 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: VersatileFred]
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Bob K.
Member
Registered: 06-20-05
Posts: 750
Loc: USA
(71.130.192.172)
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How about doing away with the quota system and replacing it with this?
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#43819 - 12-28-07 10:59 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Sierra Sam]
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AsABat
Member
Registered: 12-26-02
Posts: 244
Loc: www.4jeffrey.net
(70.167.172.62)
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Compare the demand for access to the main Whitney Trail to the Mist Trail in Yosemite. Maybe Whitney needs to be similarly managed. It would be a different experience, but it would also be a chance to educate those who otherwise are non-hikers about the wilderness and the need to preserve wilderness (where use in many other areas is dropping).
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#43820 - 12-28-07 11:04 AM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Bob K.]
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AsABat
Member
Registered: 12-26-02
Posts: 244
Loc: www.4jeffrey.net
(70.167.172.62)
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How about doing away with the quota system and replacing it with this?
Maybe more realistic is this.
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#43909 - 01-02-08 04:30 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: AsABat]
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Rick Kent
Member
Registered: 05-23-03
Posts: 507
Loc: Bakersfield, CA
(63.175.219.5)
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Here's another idea. Close the Portal (leave the Portal store of course) and require all hikers to start from a new parking lot down near the NRT trailhead (next to the Lone Pine Campground). That would cut down on traffic a bit and make a dayhike a truly challenging accomplishment.
Oh, and regardless they should offer a yearly unlimited access pass for say around $100. Or offer the yearly pass to those who contribute a certain amount of trail work or something.
I still don't understand the problem. What difference is it going to make if you let 1000 people hike every day versus 100? Are they concerned the rocks on the trail are going to get pounded to dust or what? Because besides that I don't understand what "impact" they're talking about. There are no more restrooms to worry about filling up anymore so what's the deal?
In regards to the North Fork if they're thinking fewer numbers will make it safer I submit that more accidents / deaths will be the inevitable result as more people will attempt to schedule their trips outside the quota season when conditions are more dangerous.
Oh and on the subject of lions why not reintroduce the Grizzly to California. How silly is it that the Griz is on our state flag and yet there isn't a single wild Grizzly in the state? How can the Sierra ecosystem truly ever return to its original state without the Grizzly? Ah but the Garcia bear cans probably can't stand up to a Grizzly so the park service would require us to carry 25 pound canisters made from 1/4 inch steel plate.
Edited by Rick Kent (01-02-08 04:41 PM)
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#43916 - 01-02-08 07:13 PM
Re: New quotas: North Fork included in dayhike li
[Re: Rick Kent]
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AsABat
Member
Registered: 12-26-02
Posts: 244
Loc: www.4jeffrey.net
(70.181.132.191)
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Here's another idea. Close the Portal (leave the Portal store of course) and require all hikers to start from a new parking lot down near the NRT trailhead (next to the Lone Pine Campground).
I've often thought they should do the same with Yosemite Valley. Just imagine the thrill of seeing it for the first time on foot. (And I don't mean and park and ride the bus, but a park and walk.)
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