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#38862 - 07-25-07 11:51 PM
Whitney MR permit question
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Jason32
Member
Registered: 07-25-07
Posts: 4
Loc: San Diego, CA
(71.137.137.21)
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I've got a couple of questions for the locals familiar with the MR.
It looks like there are 4 walk-in permits available for an overnight MR on any given entry day. I understand that I will have to pick up this permit the day prior to entry.
Does anyone have a guesstimate of our odds of success, if my group arrives on a Friday morning (10 AM) to try and get three overnight MR permits for the next day? If the odds are good, we will take our chances and hope for the best.
Also, does anyone know if it is possible to exit via the main trail with said permit? Just a backup plan in case the downclimbing gets too hairy.
Thanks!
Jason
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#38872 - 07-26-07 08:18 AM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Jason32]
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wbtravis5152
Member
Registered: 12-22-02
Posts: 1619
(68.190.240.97)
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I'd be the first one there on Friday the minute they open...which I think is 8 or 9 AM. All it takes is a solo to bugger up your trip.
If you get the permit you can exit any way to choose to exit, MR or MMWT.
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#38904 - 07-26-07 12:14 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Jason32]
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Richard P.
Member
Registered: 06-26-03
Posts: 2191
Loc: Ridgecrest, CA
(71.106.12.56)
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I've got a couple of questions for the locals familiar with the MR.
It looks like there are 4 walk-in permits available for an overnight MR on any given entry day. I understand that I will have to pick up this permit the day prior to entry.
Does anyone have a guesstimate of our odds of success, if my group arrives on a Friday morning (10 AM) to try and get three overnight MR permits for the next day? If the odds are good, we will take our chances and hope for the best.
Also, does anyone know if it is possible to exit via the main trail with said permit? Just a backup plan in case the downclimbing gets too hairy.
Thanks!
Jason
When I went in for a "walk-in" permit for a Thursday (same day) entry a couple of weeks ago, they were down to 1 left (8:00am arrival; #5 in the lottery).
I don't know if they hold an 11:00am lottery for the next-day entry, but I'd guess yes. Hope for good luck if they do.
You have to tell the FS people your point of exit. For overnights up the North Fork, I believe you would have to have a Trail Crest Exit Permit if you wanted to carry over the top and down the Main Trail.
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#38907 - 07-26-07 12:28 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Richard P.]
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Ken
Member
Registered: 01-29-03
Posts: 1966
Loc: Studio City, Ca
(66.245.192.236)
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You have to tell the FS people your point of exit. For overnights up the North Fork, I believe you would have to have a Trail Crest Exit Permit if you wanted to carry over the top and down the Main Trail.
You are absolutely right, Richard, if that is the plan. I think, though, that the FS folks understand the issue of danger downclimbing the MR for some, and would rather have people walk out the MMWT, than risk injuring themselves or create a rescue situation. I'm not heard of anyone being hassled for doing the safest thing. I think safety issues are judged to overwhelm paperwork issues (thank God!) I think they accept that there will be some "exceptions" that occur, and are probably offset by the permits that are never used.
I'd never let a permit issue interfere with what I do from a safety perspective, and I know that you wouldn't, nor most other reasonable people.
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#38910 - 07-26-07 12:46 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Ken]
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cloudsrestcraig
Member
Registered: 05-09-07
Posts: 42
Loc: reno
(207.200.116.74)
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In early june I had a MR permit, I forget to tell them that I wanted to depart via the main trail. Well I only made it to the top of the chute do to a monster wind storm and I was running out of time. I went back for a 27 June climb (sucessful this time) and upon telling them that I would like to depart the main trail I did ask them if my permit has a MR return would there be a problem if I changed my mind once on top and wanted to return via the main trail due to safety reasons even though my permit stated different. No Problem at all, you are there, you have a permit and all that you are doing is walking on a trail trying to get down safely. We understand the ranger told me. I guess that neither you or me are the first to ask this question to them.....
Good Luck
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#38915 - 07-26-07 01:21 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: cloudsrestcraig]
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California-Trailwalker
Member
Registered: 12-27-02
Posts: 849
Loc: Blacklick (Columbus), OH
(66.194.186.153)
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I guess that neither you or me are the first to ask this question to them.....
It comes up several times each year on this board, and probably a lot more frequently than that at the permit office.
_________________________
"Testing one's limits may create a risk factor but it is the only way to find out what you are truly capable of." mc reinhardt
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#38935 - 07-26-07 09:11 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Ken]
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wbtravis5152
Member
Registered: 12-22-02
Posts: 1619
(68.190.240.97)
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Ken,
I don't think the rangers on the trail will give you a hassle but I do think you might get an argument with the staff in Lone Pine if you told them this was your plan. After all, 4 additional people on the MMWT will ruin the wilderness experience of the ~185 already there.
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#38936 - 07-26-07 09:39 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Jason32]
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VersatileFred
Member
Registered: 07-03-03
Posts: 1276
Loc: SoCal
(69.226.186.137)
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It looks like there are 4 walk-in permits available for an overnight MR on any given entry day. I understand that I will have to pick up this permit the day prior to entry.
Also, does anyone know if it is possible to exit via the main trail with said permit? Just a backup plan in case the downclimbing gets too hairy.
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#38945 - 07-26-07 10:36 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: wbtravis5152]
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Ken
Member
Registered: 01-29-03
Posts: 1966
Loc: Studio City, Ca
(66.245.192.236)
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Ken,
I don't think the rangers on the trail will give you a hassle but I do think you might get an argument with the staff in Lone Pine if you told them this was your plan. After all, 4 additional people on the MMWT will ruin the wilderness experience of the ~185 already there.
HA! Point taken! 
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#38946 - 07-26-07 10:45 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: VersatileFred]
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Jason32
Member
Registered: 07-25-07
Posts: 4
Loc: San Diego, CA
(71.137.137.21)
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Thanks everyone for your input/help. This might be a stupid question, but am I correct in assuming that the 4 available permits are for four total hikers, and not 4 different groups of hikers?
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#38948 - 07-26-07 10:48 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Jason32]
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VersatileFred
Member
Registered: 07-03-03
Posts: 1276
Loc: SoCal
(69.226.186.137)
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Thanks everyone for your input/help. This might be a stupid question, but am I correct in assuming that the 4 available permits are for four total hikers, and not 4 different groups of hikers?
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#38949 - 07-26-07 10:48 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: VersatileFred]
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Jason32
Member
Registered: 07-25-07
Posts: 4
Loc: San Diego, CA
(71.137.137.21)
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Are you planning to take all of your gear to the summit? If not, you may want to reconsider your strategy.
The plan was to make the decision before heading up to the summit on the second day - once we get a feel for the exposure. A couple of us have climbing experience so it shouldn't be a problem, but others don't...
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#38984 - 07-27-07 01:28 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Jason32]
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Richard P.
Member
Registered: 06-26-03
Posts: 2191
Loc: Ridgecrest, CA
(71.106.12.56)
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I've carried over the top, with heavy loads, on a couple of occasions. If you have technical climbing skills, it's not that big a deal.
The other alternative is to leave your gear at camp and then climb the North Fork a second time to retrieve it. We used this strategy when we took my nephew up the MR back in 2000. Technically, you're violating the permit system, but again, like others said, you can claim it was a safety issue. (And it was with my nephew. He was scared on the climb up; I can't imagine what it would have been like for him to have to descend the "Final-400." It also gave us the opportunity to give him a party down in Lone Pine before we headed back up to retrieve our gear.)
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#39012 - 07-27-07 06:37 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Richard P.]
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Jason32
Member
Registered: 07-25-07
Posts: 4
Loc: San Diego, CA
(71.137.137.21)
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Hmmm.. It will be interesting, that's for sure! Thanks for all the input and maybe we'll see you on the trail.
Jason
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#39085 - 07-29-07 08:18 AM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: Jason32]
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VersatileFred
Member
Registered: 07-03-03
Posts: 1276
Loc: SoCal
(69.224.227.48)
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Let us know how things turn out. Now is certainly a good time to develop a contingency plan.
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#39325 - 08-02-07 01:15 PM
Re: Whitney MR permit question
[Re: VersatileFred]
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ellenclary
Member
Registered: 06-16-03
Posts: 78
(65.211.242.6)
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I've asked the permit office at length about MR up and MMWT down.
By the book you need an MR permit and you need MMWT permit with a Trail Crest entry point (it's a special case of the MMWT permits.) There is a quota for these and it's not a given that you will get one so it's best to check.
While I don't know for sure Doug Sr. thought the fines were pretty high for not having the MMWT trail crest permit.
As for me, I'm just going up and down the MR as I don't want to schlep all my stuff up to the summit.
Ellen
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